Z-Temp Forum
Z-Temp Products => Materials Compatibility => Topic started by: Julia Truchsess on June 24, 2016, 08:19:09 PM
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I posted here previously about this material :http://www.z-temp.co/forum/index.php?topic=17.0
It's not commercially available yet but Nanodax has been kind enough to send me a sample for testing, and I can report some results. I can't post photos of my prints because the project I'm using it for is confidential, and I can't print non-confidential stuff right now because my supply is limited and I'm hoarding it :)
Coming out of the extruder, this material is extremely weak - it takes nothing to break it apart. But once printed, it's incredibly strong - it just cannot be torn. Even single- or double-walled structures are very very strong. Nonetheless, raft and support removal are not difficult at all. It is indeed liquid-tight, as shown in the Nanodax demo video. It's also temperature-resistant up to 120-130ºC continuous, so you could print yourself a coffee mug, although it'd probably get pretty badly stained. In thin flat layers it's pretty flexible so you can make living hinges, but more complex shapes get rigid quickly even with just two shells and no infill.
For my first print I used glue stick and shim, as is my wont, and it lifted off the bed horribly. "Uh-oh", I said - this stuff isn't going to work. At Nanodax's urging, however, I thoroughly washed all the glue stick from the bed, scuffed it with scotchbrite, gave it an acetone wipe to help soften any ABS that might be in the holes, and printed without the shim, using bed heat setting 2. Since then, every print has stuck down perfectly, even to the point of being a bit difficult to scrape off the bed.
I've tried extrusion temps from 230-250º and have settled at 240º. Fan speed doesn't seem critical; I'm using 100% or auto, but I did a couple of prints with no fan and they came out OK too.
I initially had a number of "air print" failures. At first I thought they were due to particulate clogs, so I switched to a 0.5mm nozzle. This seemed to help at first, but then the air prints returned. After further mucking about with extrusion temp to no avail, I measured the filament and found it to be slightly undersized, so I installed a printed PCTPE 8x3x3 roller in place of the stock 7x3x3 bearing. Again an improvement but still not 100% reliable. I then redesigned my part to print without support - bingo! - no more air prints. So it would seem this material doesn't like a lot of retractions. You can get away with some support, especially on small parts, but tall prints with 360º support may be problematic.
I've since gone back to a 0.4mm nozzle and it's printing fine, with better surface finish. Nanodax is aware of the filament diameter issue and will correct it; for the time being I'm leaving in my PCTPE pressure bearing.
All in all, this material is a unique and powerful addition to the filament collection - in some applications (like the one I'm working on now) there's nothing else I'm aware of that can do the job. Hopefully Nanodax will bring it to the general market soon.
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Cool! Thanks for the first-hand info, Julia. When available, I'd like to try it for a project I have in mind.
As an old machinist (emphasis on the "old") in another life, I wouldn't be surprised if you find it abrasive and hard on nozzles. OTOH, with your ZT-HE nozzles at $5 ea., that's NBD.
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Padraicsdad
Different from glass fiber used for fiber reinforced filament, the glass wool we used has smaller diameter (4-7um). Therefor if you grab it, you will get very soft feeling and feel no itchiness.
I won't say it won't. But degree of abrasion is less than that of fiber.
As you know, PP is not suitable for 3D printing because of it's big CTE. The glass wool NANODAX compounded to PP helps to reduce CTE of PP low enough for 3D printing application.
Naoto Sakaue
NANODAX
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Welcome to the forum, Sakaue-San, we are honored to have you with us!
I have one more follow-up note to my original post: better to use low or no fan I think, as I had a couple of failures today (same place on the print each time) with auto fan, even using a block insulator. Turned off the fan and printing completed OK.
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: better to use low or no fan.
I better add this to my list of knack. ;)
I use "no fan" so far and no issue was observed.
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I just want to show you the picture of huge vase which Ninjapod's engineer made using their 700mm x 700mm printer. He made two of this and no problem occurred during the process.
CEO of Ninjabot poured water in the vase and tried to lift it up but failed. It was too heavy for him. It did not tear apart. That is what I heard from the chief engineer who made it. He tried making the same vase using ABS/PLA but failed due to warping and saggy layer issues.
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Impressive! When will you be bringing it to market and who will be selling it in the US?
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Hi Mike.
We plan to release this filament at end of SEP.
I am thinking to look for someone who is keen to sale this filament in US.
Sakaue
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Thanks - looking forward to trying it out.
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Yesterday I tried printing GWPP for the first time. My Zortrax was tied up so I printed a vase designed by Julia on my Original Prusa i3 Mk2 that I built from Josef’s kit. (BTW, it is proving to be an excellent printer at a very modest price), I scaled Julia’s vase down a bit but otherwise it's exactly as she designed it.
Before I made the print I had one false start. As the printer was laying down the third layer the GWPP began to curl up at the edges and during the next layer the nozzle grabbed it and knocked it off the build plate. Clearly, not enough adhesion to the packing tape so I added a little bed heat (50℃) and started again. See the photos for the results.
I sliced the model using Simplify3D. The main settings were are as follows - I will supply any other settings upon request:
Nozzle orifice - 0.4mm
Nozzle - 230℃
Bed - 50℃
Extrusion Multiplier - 1.00
Extrusion width - .45mm
Retraction distance - 0.80mm
Retraction speed - 1800.0mm/min
Coasting distance - 0.20mm
Wipe distance - 2.00mm
Bottom layers - 4
Shells - 4
No support
Print fans - 0%
Layer height - 0.200mm
Default printing speed - 2400.0mm/min
I am very happy with the way this material printed and look forward to doing more with it. The process is easy-peasy. Simply lay down packing tape as a base and GWPP prints at “normal" settings as nicely as other materials. With a little bed heat adhesion is strong but not too strong - the print popped off easily and cleanly.
Although the vase has very thin sides and bottom, my “squeeze tests” suggest it is very strong but still somewhat flexible. It is very light and as near as I can tell, perfectly waterproof.
One note: The bed surface on this printer is what I believe is a sheet of PEI (Ultem). I laid down packing tape where I knew the vase would be printing but forgot that at the start of each print this printer also prints a line about 80mm long at the front of the bed, just to clear the nozzle and get the plastic moving. As it turns out, GWPP adheres to PEI so well it can’t be scraped off and heat doesn’t help. With a lot of careful work I got most of it off and that spot is outside the print area anyway so it doesn’t affect me. However, I’d avoid printing GWPP directly onto a PEI (Ultem) surface as it may prove very difficult to remove.
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Beautiful print! BTW, although it bears my name, I did not design that vase.
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Ooops. I thought it was you. Just another example of what happens when you ass-ume.
Sorry to whomever I might have offended.
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Hi Jeff.
I suppose quality of surface is almost perfect, looks like almost the same as what I am doing here. The printer kit was built in good and set properly.
I am thinking to test thick, 1.6mm, PP sheet instead of tape. Julia's Z-sense is useful to this idea.
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I don't use any tape with GWPP on the M200. Just make sure the bed is clean (no glue stick residue) and the first layer height is small, and GWPP sticks to the perfboard extremely well. The bond seems to get stronger with each successive print, also, maybe because of material in the holes.
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Yes, Julia. You are correct. I neither apply tape to M200. But to test PP sheet, M200 is easy for me to use. Sorry for making you confused.
I will cut the 1.6mm PP sheet into the bed size and fix on the bed using 4 clips. Then adjust the Z-sense. That's all. I expect 1)attaching is good , 2)removing print is easy and 3)can be used many times.
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Naoto,
Do you have the PP sheet yet? Does it lie flat enough on the bed with just clips around the edges?
Jeff
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Hi Jeff.
I got a OPP sheet from nearby 1 coin shop. Thickness is 1mm.
I understand your worry. I do not know until I try. If it's flatness is too bad, I will test 2mm thick plate.
I hope I can do it by next week. I am busy now to find the best way to attach the tape on the Aluminum bed of Makerbot. Sticking strength between PP tape and Aluminum bed is weaker than glass bed.
Naoto Sakaue
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I would like to try your filament @ Mr. Sakaue.
When is it going to be released ?
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Hi Luciancd.
It will be released soon. But If you want to test it now, please visit http://www.haymaa.com/3d-eng/ (http://www.haymaa.com/3d-eng/). There are some informations of GWPP and my contact info. Please drop me an email.
Hi Jeff
I have tested PP sheep. Result was super! It attaches forever!. You can't remove it.
That is just a tasting. Maybe I change the 1st layer gap and temperature and see how it become.
Meanwhile, I found another tape to which PP attach. It is PE tape(tack weld tape). It looks like PP packing tape but colored.
It stick well against PP. I feel easier than PP when I remove parts. And it won't tear off when you remove parts. You can use it several times.
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Hi Naoto,
I also ordered a PP sheet and expect it to arrive today. It is .093"/2.36mm thick X 12"/305mm X 24"/610mm so I'll have plenty to use for experiments. Now that I know what happened to you I'll try increasing the nozzle gap, lowering nozzle temp and no bed heat. I'll post my results.
This is just for fun, however. I'm perfectly happy with the way GWPP sticks to packing tape and expect to enjoy the same success as you and Julia printing it directly onto the M200's bed.
Jeff
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Finally, web shop was opened!
http://haymaa.com/3d-eng/ (http://haymaa.com/3d-eng/)
This Gozirra was made using GWPP.
http://tamashii.jp/special/humansize/godzilla/ (http://tamashii.jp/special/humansize/godzilla/)
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