Z-Temp Forum
Z-Temp Products => General Discussion => Topic started by: z-renegade on September 25, 2016, 02:08:50 PM
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Removed the perfboard from a bed and tried with Buildtak.
Works great and I found only advantages over the perfboard way:
- better leveling because BT is glued flat to the bed whereas the perfboard tends to lift in the middle
- better adhesion and raft removal because of the previous advantage
- no more plastic dust from scratching off a print from the perfboard
- I think cost will be less also compared to buying perfboards
On the pic that shows two bins, the left one was printed on standard perfboard, the right one on the Buildtak.
I used a cheap PLA, that caused the lower print quality and blobs, next test will be printing ABS.
Of course a Z-Sense is needed to do this seamlessly.
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I apply BuildTak to the perfboard. Hadn't thought of taking off the perfboard and applying the BuildTak directly to the heated plate. BuildTak works really well. I wish we could elect to eliminate printing the rafts. BuildTax provides an excellent surface for prints.
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I apply BuildTak to the perfboard. ...
Doesn't make sense to me. You loose some heat because of the insulation of the perfboard between the bed and BT (important for ABS only) and you loose leveling precision as the perfboard tends to lift in the middle.
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Using Buildtak needs some care (heard of so many Pros failing and dismissing it):
http://forum.raise3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=556
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Great!
what size you took of Buildtak?
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I used a big sheet (304x304) because I have ordered them previously for another printer. Of course a 254x254 is enough to cover the bed, if you want to save some money you could also use a 203x203 and center it on the bed instead of cutting the bigger sheet to fit.
The 203x203 is 40 Euros for a 5 pack, you can hardly get a perfboard for that price.
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thanks a lot.
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Doesn't make sense to me. You loose some heat because of the insulation of the perf board between the bed and BT (important for ABS only) and you loose leveling precision as the perf board tends to lift in the middle.
I've had excellent results. The first version of the perf board was very flexible. The second version was a lot stiffer. My Zortrax was shipped with a warped heat bed. Fought that for a long time and finally ordered a new one. It is perfectly flat and now using BT with Z-Sense is a pure pleasure. My models adhere incredibly well to BT. I have had some models that pulled the BT off the perf board due to shrinkage but the model stayed adhered to the BT. I have had models that the BT stayed firmly on the perf board and the print firmly to the BT but the walls of the model itself separated.
I will definitely try your method.
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Now printing on a BuildTak Flexplate. No more connector or bed removal, the prints pop off the Flexplate with just a little bend of it.
Did only print with PLA so far (means only low temp print bed settings are used). I use the 203x203mm Flexplate.
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I intend to try a PEI sheet at some point, I've heard nothing but good things about its performance, whereas BuildTak is somewhat controversial.
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Haven't tried BT yet for the same reasons as Julia but I love the PEI/Ultem surface on my Prusa i3 MK2. After a quick pre-print clean using a paper towel and 70% IPA, prints of PLA, ABS, ASA, PETG, TPU and nGen stick well but pop off easily after a little careful prying.
However, after about 300 hours the surface seemed to have lost some of it's adhesion and several parts got knocked off. Adjusting nozzle temp, bed temp and nozzle gap up and down brought no joy so I took a chance and lightly burnished the surface with fine ScotchBrite wetted with IPA. Viola! It works again and seems to be staying good. Nothing ever dripped on it, nor was it touched by anything except fingers ands scrapers so I don't know if this was due to a natural chemical change in the surface or maybe I was too zealous about cleaning. Whatever, I haven't had to "sand" it again so I'm a happy puppy.
I backed the Steelmans LokBuild KS project, which reports that shipping has begun. So with luck, I should have a 203 X 203mm sheet within a month.... or so. They don't say it's PEI/Ultem but it sound like it. I will try it on the Zortrax and report. Thanks again to Julia for the Z-Sense, which will make this easy.
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yeah, a bit of a controversy 8)
I removed the PEI sheet on my Robox, the manufacturer felt the need to print PLA with a 70° bed temp to hold the prints on the bed.
I tried to lower it to 40° and the prints warped (always talking about large flat bottom surfaces for this comparison).
Now with BuildTak on the Robox I print raftless with 40° bed temp, prints are easy coming off, no warp, no molten bottom surface (elephant foot) like the original Robox.
And I don't clean my BuildTak, it's not needed (IPA actually kills the adhesion but it can be restored with ABS slurry if needed).
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Hm, I print PLA on the M200 perfboard completely cold; maybe I should just stay with that :)
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well, you think you print such an object (shape, size) on a cold perboard without the part showing a lift off? ::)
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Dunno, I haven't printed such an object :) What I mostly print these days are Z-Temp product parts, 8 - 12 at a time.
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What I mostly print these days are Z-Temp product parts, 8 - 12 at a time.
the 2017 batch...
Well that case of mine does not fit 2 times on the perfboard. And of course if you have a working production setup no need to (or better not) change anything.
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Hi everyone. I have just installed z-sense on my m200. A very easy installation and it seems to be working great. Everything else on my printer is stock for now. Now I'm wondering, can I print raft-less with ABS after running my z-code through RaftAway? Is it just a case of installing a sheet of PEI or possibly BuildTak?
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Hi everyone. I have just installed z-sense on my m200. A very easy installation and it seems to be working great. Everything else on my printer is stock for now. Now I'm wondering, can I print raft-less with ABS after running my z-code through RaftAway? Is it just a case of installing a sheet of PEI or possibly BuildTak?
Yes, pretty much. I haven't done much raftless ABS, I'm sure it will be challenging. Even for PLA, the bed has to be more level than is required with perfboard+raft. Initial nozzle distance needs to be quite small, and bumping up first layer extrusion to 150 - 200% will help. Slowing down the speed some will help too, especially if there's any support in the first layer. My preferred surface is glass with Aquanet hairspray, but people do of course have success with PEI and BuildTak.
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Thanks Julia. Glass is sounding quite good.
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Thanks Julia. Glass is sounding quite good.
I did test over the weekend with using blue masking tape & Z-ABS. The part stuck to the tape after a little bit of tweaking in RaftAway (extrusion 150%, speed 50%) but started to curl up at the edges after a few layers. I'd like to try with glass next but I'm guessing ABS is not the best option for raftless printing.
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